#41 Stepping Out of the Woo Woo Closet: A Conversation with Helen Joy Butler

Kelly and Helen met in an online forum for female entrepreneurs 10 years ago. Despite Kelly being based in Spain and Helen in Australia, they became great business buddies.

In this conversation, they share what stopped them from bringing their soulful sides into their very practical businesses - and how they finally stepped out of the 'woo woo' closet.

They also speak on awakening, ascension, upgrades in consciousness and Soul Plan readings!

If you've ever felt nervous about exposing your 'woo woo' side in life or business, open your mind and heart and give this conversation a listen.

Find Helen Joy Butler at https://helenjoybutler.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/helenjoybutler

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HelenJoyButler/

Join the upcoming round of Kelly's much loved High Vibe Journey programme: https://myprojectme.com/high-vibe-journey

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www.instagram.com/kellyprojectme

Read the Transcript for this Episode below:

Episode 41 of the project me podcast.  Hi guys. Welcome back. This podcast is normally solo episodes of me sharing stories and inviting you to reflect on how they relate to your own life path. But ever so often I'm called to bring in a guest.  I manifested my first guest back in episode 18 when EFT tapping wizard Brad Yates flashed up as a YouTube notification on my phone, offering himself to be a podcast guest.

My second guest was in episode 28. When I spoke to Lydia, the crystal healer in Ibiza about all things crystals,  my third guest in episode 34 was none other than my 19 year old son Marco, who spoke to me about being a young gay man in today's world and our dream that one day people won't need to have a big coming out because it won't be assumed they're straight.

I've been told that episode gave a lot of people a fresh perspective on people saying that they need more time to accept the news that their child is gay. Marco and I would love to get onto more platforms to continue this conversation.  Today I'm very happy to have my fourth ever guest on the show. Her name is Helen Joy Butler.

Helen and I first connected nearly 10 years ago in an online forum for female entrepreneurs. We'd all been through Marie Forleo's B School.  Back then, she was the woman behind Clutter Rescue, helping women to organize and declutter their homes. She was all about being busy but balanced. This was in direct alignment with my messaging at the time.

I'd started my blog and business, Project Me for Busy Mothers, to help women to live a well balanced life with practical lifestyle management tips and tools.  Despite Helen living in Australia and me in Spain, we became instant business buddies.  But over the years, as our businesses grew, we kind of flew off on our own, occasionally dropping each other kind messages here and there.

I knew her home organizing angle had morphed into becoming an elemental space clearer, shifting and clearing the energy in people's homes.  In around 2018, I joined an online group for woo woo entrepreneurs, and I'll admit I felt a little bit like a looky loo, gazing in on what others were offering in the world, but not really feeling like I fit in.

I never posted there, I just observed from afar. And then I saw that Helen was in there, and it felt reassuring that someone I knew to be as practical as I am was in there too. Because people post a lot of really far out stuff in there, some of which felt very far beyond my understanding at the time.

Well, over the years, it felt less and less over my head. And the more I dip my toes into the wonderful world of WUWU, the more it's opened up for me. And as you'll know, if you've been following this podcast, yeah, I'm well into the WUWU now.  As a soul plan practitioner and a soul led retreat facilitator, I now feel I'm in my rightful place in that WUWU group.

So a few weeks ago, something happened.  I was in bed one night and my entire head filled up with a super intense and powerful buzzing alongside what can only be described as kind of blips and beeps and gibberish that just grew louder and louder. I wasn't at all afraid, I just kind of laid still and wrote it out until it suddenly stopped.

It reminded me that something similar had happened to me in my 20s and I thought about that over the years and I just kind of wrote it off because I didn't really know how to make any sense of it.  So that night a few weeks ago, I just drifted off to sleep, woke up the next day, and I must have forgotten about it because I didn't even write about it in my dream journal.

A few mornings later, I saw a post in that woo woo group written by Helen Joy Butler. She was describing something that had happened to her the night before.  Helen wrote,  Last night, as I drifted off to sleep, I felt the most amazing, full on, something seriously going down head tingles. It was insane. It was like the whole right side of my head was in liftoff.

And now, at 5. 30 a. m. my time, I can still feel them.  Head tingles are not uncommon for me, but this was off the charts.  I'm excited to see what comes from it. A. K. A. What have my spirit guide got in store for me now?  So I'm reading this, and in a flash, I remembered what had happened to me the other night. I replied, I also had some crazy things going on in my head around three or four nights ago.

It was like my whole head was filled up with a bunch of zips and zaps and sounds and squiggly computer like voices, not an actual language hard to describe. It was so lucid and powerful and it reached a kind of crescendo and then stopped.  I would love to hear from others who've ever experienced this.

Love reading your description of what you experienced, Helen.  And then Helen replied to my comment, I've sent you a private message. So I went over to my messages and she asked if I could talk. And miraculously, given we're on opposite sides of the planet, we were both free at that moment and we hopped on and had a chat.

Helen said she was pretty certain there was an upgrade happening for me. She asked if I was tired or wired.  Was I swinging from exhaustion to exhilaration? Having blurred vision or can't string a sentence together? Feel scrambled in my head or my body? I was like, um, yep, that's me.  Helen said, there's a lot of action going on at the moment.

Ascension of those on a spiritual path.  We started having an amazing conversation. And then at one point, I stopped us and I said, you know what? Let's do a recorded conversation for my podcast.  Let's talk openly about our journeys of stepping out of the woo woo closet, being afraid to show this side of ourselves for fear of alienating others, and about awakening, ascension, and whatever else comes up.

And Helen said, sure. So if you listened to my last episode, you'll know that on the morning we were meant to be recording this episode, I had an incredible experience of connecting with Mother Mary. I ended up turning on the mic straight out of bed and sharing that whole incredible story.  And thank you to everyone who's reached out about that.

Your words are really helping me to process the significance of it all. The roses, the rose garden, Mother Mary beyond religious doctrines, and that Beatles song Let It Be. 

So here today is my rescheduled conversation with Helen Joy Butler. I hope you enjoy where this conversation took us.

Hi, Helen.  Hi, Kelly. How are you?  Good to see you again. We're going to try to pick up the conversation where we were last time. And I was just thinking, how are we going to pick up the conversation from where we were last time? Because we were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And then we both had to go. But, um. I just want to start by saying how amazing it is that we are both finally out of the woo woo closet.

Uh, firmly me, I mean, I feel like you stepped out of it before me, like, like long before me. What was it like when you, um, kind of started to go, I'm not just going to be Helen from Clutter Rescue and help people pick out what kind of plastic containers they want for their wardrobes? I know you did much more than that, but you know, when you started to move into your elemental space clearing, did that feel scary?

Oh, I actually find that such a hard question to answer, Kelly, because I think by the time I got to the elemental space clearing side of my journey, I was actually pushed out of the woo woo closet.  I think I had to wind back. Many years before then when I kind of, you know, dip my toe out and then I pull it back in because it was too scary or I dip my toe, other toe out and someone would say something that kind of knocked me off kilter or made me feel weird or,  you know, Crazy or whatever.

And so then I'd go back in. So I felt like I yo yoed in and out.  I mean, let's face it. I was born like this and I had these kinds of skills and gifts and abilities forever. But you know, you throw yourself quite firmly in that closet,  particularly when, you know, you're encouraged not to be like that. And so stepping out is really scary.

And when you step out, it's a real trust exercise, you know, when you step out and if you're, you're confident and somebody is there to hold you safely, you know, you'll step out even further. But if what you receive in return is  You know, uncomfortable or frightening or whatever you tend to pull yourself back in.

So I did that journey for a long time. So stepping into the space clearing was really my way of going, I am woo woo. But if anyone asks me about it, I'm not sure I can really go there because I was still quite scared. I had no idea of the reaction I was going to get from people. Yeah, I, I could remember, well, I took me, I was in an EFT, um, tapping session and we were going back through, you know, something, you know, like going, going back.

And I remember having this flashback of my husband. I think it was around 2018, I think it was when my book was coming out. And I remember saying to my husband, I just done this journaling and my embedded thing. And I came up with this whole idea of like, uh, at the time, a, um, kind of manifesting law of attraction type of course.

Um, and I, I. Put down my journal and I got up. I remember we're getting ready for the gym and I suddenly went, Oh, I've got this idea. And I kind of blurted out my idea. He stopped what he was doing. He turned around and he said, you can't do that.  You will, you've got a book and a following and everyone knows you for being lifestyle and time management for busy mothers.

And if you do that, it basically was saying everyone's going to run for the hills, you know? And it was like such a like moment, you know, where, and cause, because I have this long term, you know, vision of retiring my husband's that he doesn't have to work so many hours. And so my business has become going to become, you know, is, you know, I, I realized later it became kind of a pressure, you know, it became this kind of, I've got to, but what, what model is going to make the income that's going to be able to replace his income.

It was this whole messy thing I was in at the time. And, um, and, yeah. Yeah, that put me firmly back into the closet again, um, where I didn't dare bring that into my work or anything. And it was almost, you know, then I started my membership project, we, and, you know, still talking about the book and all this practical stuff.

And, um, it was, it was almost as if I was living two lives. It was, you know, I had all the stuff that I knew was helping me in the way that I was weaving all this, you know, woo woo, when I say woo woo, you know, we say woo woo very affectionately. We don't say woo woo in a kind of like, woo woo, like that kind of way we say it in a, in a woo woo is wonderful way.

But, um, I felt like I was weaving all this woo woo into my life, but I was teaching. Other people and on my social media and in my courses and everything, it was all very practical. And I was like, this is just, you know, it's too, it's not me being authentic. Right. And it wasn't until 2020 that I launched my high vibe journey program timidly to 12 women, you know, like, Ooh, whatever.

And it was, it turned it into like, you know, the biggest, biggest success. And, um, the, I realized that the more I started stepping out into this kind of work, The more  income it was bringing me, the more people it was bringing me, the more, you know, when you're, when you're doing something that's genuine and authentic, you become magnetic.

Right. And so, you know, it took a while for me to actually show my husband, like the, the bookkeeping and say, here's how much I'm making from the book. And from, from, you know, this kind of practical stuff, here's how much I'm making from this stuff. And it was like, Oh, and then he kind of shut up about it, you know,  You know though Kelly, I had a similar kind of situation with my husband too, in that it took me two years  to actually voice the words.

I think I'm psychic  and I knew I could have dropped the word think because I knew, right? I knew I was psychic, but I had to soften the blow a little bit because I, I felt like I needed to make that okay. And saying out loud, I think I'm psychic. My husband turned around to me and he says, I don't believe in psychics.

And so  I just felt so wounded. Well, it's like he's saying, I don't believe in you. Correct. If he doesn't believe in psychics, he doesn't believe in you. And when your husband doesn't believe in you,  yeah. What, what, you know, what?  So it was a real What did I do? Well, of course, I did what Helen did very well in those days, which was go back into my shell or go back into the cupboard, if you like, and do very much like what you did.

Do the, the two sides of me, you know, the practical stuff, the organizing stuff, the supporting women to move from busy to balanced stuff, all that kind of practical stuff. Um, when my spiritual psychic stuff,  Just felt so trapped.  And so it took about two years for me to then loop back around to that conversation with my husband.

So there was a lot of healing that needed to go on at all sorts of levels. Um, but I looped back to that conversation with him and I said, okay, about two years ago, This is what I said to you and this was the reaction and now this is how I, this is really how I felt about it at the time, but our relationship had obviously evolved a lot in the two years because when you say things like that, and even if you don't use the word psychic, even if you say I'm woo woo, I'm into spiritual stuff or, you know, I like alternative self help books or whatever, like whatever your words are, it doesn't really matter.

But once you voice those, the universal line up and start to make the reality happen, particularly if you meant to literally fall out of that cupboard, smack on your face and, you know, help other people in the process. So looping back to that conversation with my husband was actually really cathartic and really healing for both of us because he was then able to say, You know, I'm really sorry.

I didn't hear you. I didn't realize that was such a big deal. Um, and what can we do? Like, how can we move forward with this? Um, and you know, even now, there's things I do that I don't share with him because there's  You know, some of them are pretty out there and you share them with people who, again, will hold you safely, right?

Um, but he knows I do this work. He doesn't understand it. And that's totally fine. We're all happy with that. I think that has been a big, um, uh, aha for me in recent times, too, is that he doesn't have to get it. He doesn't have to understand all this. How could he understand it for me? And I'm sure for you, too.

It's like a gradual unfolding, and one thing doesn't make sense at first, and then down the line, it suddenly makes perfect sense. And you can't Speed somebody into that. And if somebody's not into it at all, then there's no point. Um, but I too feel like the more I stopped hiding it and the more I just started weaving it just kind of intellect, normal conversation.

I mean, the, the stuff, not everything, but you know, just, just, just saying stuff without being afraid of it. Um, it just kind of normalized things. I stopped hiding. I used to get into bed at night and if I was reading a book, I was going to talk to you about this book, so I have it here anyway, but the leap, um, you know, spiritual awakening, I would literally have my hand over the cover because he's on this side of me, right?

I have my hand over the cover, like I wouldn't want him to see what book I was reading, you know, it's almost like having to put a brown, brown jacket cover over the book or, you know, whatever. I was always hiding. I put something over the book on my bedside. Side table, if it was anything. If it was, if it was anything like, anything like this, you know, um, it was, I was just always kind of hiding that from him.

And I think it was defensiveness because if he were to ask me about it, I wouldn't wanna have to defend it. I wouldn't have, I wouldn't wanna have to like, explain it or defend it or, or even if you rolled his eyes or something, then that would. hurt me or something, right? And the more, and I realized I just, he never did that.

I just kind of thought that he would. And so the, the less I stopped trying to cover it up and the more I just, just this stuff's lying around here now, everywhere my crystals out my, um, my, oh, I was, I was going to tell you this, like just before the call, I was like, wait, I'm going on a call with Helen.

Formerly Clutter Rescue and I was like given my office like the biggest I was like, oh my god I hadn't realized I'd gotten quite messy. So thank you. I did a whiz clean and I did a I did a quick Elemental space clearing as well. I mean Not on your level, but you know, I cleared the air. I'm like, I gotta get things like really clear for Helen  So now there are just my, you know, and also I remember one time he came into the bedroom when I had a tarot spread out and you were like, Oh, you know, like, Oh, you know, like that.

And, um, but I owned it and I was just, I didn't, I was just like, Hey, this is, you know, this is just what I do. And, um, and now he doesn't pat an eyelid and I've got just, he'll just come in. I've got cards going on or I've got cards all over the place. So I'm just realizing how I'm not hiding it anymore from him.

And that he, yeah. He doesn't mind and it's just a part of who I am. And yeah.  Isn't it funny though? We kind of. We, it's really like we make this up in our head that this is what the reaction is gonna be and we know that we, you know, married this man, or we have a relationship with this person and they know us as this thing, um, or this person, or we wear this suit or this mask or whatever with them, and we'll play this role.

But the reality is, neither of us and no one on this planet is the same person as you were yesterday or last year or 10 years ago or when we walked down the aisle or whenever we got committed in that relationship, right? So,  we look at all the evolutions of us and I think as women, we kind of think, Well, I have to be this way because that's the woman he married.

Or that's the How my partner expects me to be instead of going, we actually have right to step into our sovereignty and own who the hell we are. And if that equals spiritual stuff, whatever that might look like, then happy days. As long as we are showing up with  an open and true heart, and we're here to do good on the planet.

We're not doing any harm. And, and I always find it fascinating. You know, you might be at a dinner party or at the grocery store or somewhere where there's other people and you might say something you're thinking in your brain, Oh my gosh, if I say this, they're going to think I'm a total fruit loop. Um, but you say it and then all of a sudden, you've got a connection because you don't know.

That might be exactly what that person needs to hear, or they might be into the same thing or have a response, which will help. And before you know it, you're off on some esoteric conversation, which is just gold.  What I am finding with myself is that I'm realizing that I, because people have come to know me as being very practical, because that's what my book's about.

That's what my, the tribe I've built is very, you know, come to see me. It's very practical. It's almost like I can come at this from. Practical woo, you know, like I, people, people have told me who've done my high vibe journey program, my higher program. I do a little questionnaire at the very beginning and they fill it in and it says, where, where are you on the woo woo scale?

10 being like really out there, you know, one being like, or zero being not at all. And it's just amazing. Like nobody puts like. Nobody in the beginning puts like, you know, before over a seven or an eight, you know, some people kind of put maybe a seven or six. Some people put, what is woo woo? I don't know what you mean.

And because that is a terminology, I realized that like, you know, in our circles, we kind of say, but not everybody even knows what, what we mean by woo woo, you know? And the amazing thing is that later on, when they go on to do like my next level program and everything, they come back and they say, I didn't even know what any of this was.

Their worlds really were about. Paying the bills, their to do list, managing their time. You know, there's, there was joy, of course, you know, but they just didn't understand these higher levels of consciousness, like just, just not on their radar because some people are just naturally they're, they're, they're, it's, they're not naturally going to be drawn to those people on social media or on YouTube or read the books or whatever, that's just not, it's not in their community.

It's not in their family. It's not in there. It's just. Not in them, they don't think, but as soon as it sort of gets introduced to them, these concepts, suddenly  they starts to click, it starts to, they start to wake up. And I love seeing that because then suddenly they're open to having their soul plans read and then they're living by their soul plans and they're opening up even more and I just love that.

I wanted to talk to you actually, a couple of things have just blown into my mind. One. That I just saw that you've qualified as a SoulPlan practitioner as well. Congratulations.  Again, like our, our parallel paths are paths that keep kind of, you know, going apart, coming together. I'm like, we're both SoulPlan practitioners.

Like how did you fall into it? Did you have your SoulPlan read?  No, I hadn't actually I had not. But you know, it's interesting. Someone asked me this question earlier today and I said, it was exactly the same thing with space clearing. Right. I knew about space clearing for a long, long time. I'd known about self plan for a long, long time,  but it just wasn't.

The right timing, I suppose, or I just wasn't in the right space because I'm all now about following my intuition and going where I'm meant to go. So when it came with the space clearing, I saw the course and went, right, I'm going to do that. And it started in 10 days. So I just signed up. The exact same thing happened with SoulPlan.

I saw it, it started in 10 days, right? I'm going to sign up. Uh, and I just follow that knowing now. So that's really how I, Fell into the soul plan, but, and I had totally forgotten Kelly that you had done it until we reconnected, you know, through those private messages, you know, what was, I don't know, six weeks ago.

Yeah. Yeah.  Amazing. Um, I feel like I, when that, when I mentioned before about that door being shut, when my husband made that comment back in, I think it was 2018,  I had. Two years. It felt like longer than that, but it felt like two years of me  feeling like there, I want to help people on a deeper level. I want to have this like calling.

I now see it as my soul, like pushing me, you know, whatever. But it was like, I want to help people on a level that's beyond managing their to do list on their time. And they're living a balanced life. Like I want to help people on a deeper level. Now I've dabbled in all kinds of wonderful modalities, really amazing.

They've always just fallen into my lap, you know, like the breadcrumb trail, you know, and I've thought, well, I love EFT. Should I train to be an EFT practitioner? Um, I love, um, um, What are some of the other things I've done? There's so many things  I've debated about doing several courses, several programs, becoming qualified.

And then I just keep resisting. I think I have a resistance to qualifications. I have, I have a resistance to it. I don't need a piece of paper. In other words, I don't need a piece of paper to prove anything. And I know that some people are kind of the opposite. They're like, I don't, I won't feel like I'm worthy enough until I have the piece of paper that says I have the qualification.

I don't have that. I. I feel like, um, I want to learn different things, but I don't need a piece of paper at the end of it. And, um, so I, I had my soul plan read by Anita, who you now know. And my soul plan was just, Like all about and I realized I brought your soul plan up, Helen. Um, we've got some shared soul plan energies and, um, one of our shared challenges, spiritual challenges, the six, six and six, six energy in the spiritual challenge is about.

Flitting from one thing to another, to another, to another, like, um, being a bit of a, um, dabbler and the, um, the, um, butterfly syndrome, you know, flying over there, flying over there, flying over there, you know, and for me, that was a challenge in the sense of trying all kinds of things, but never really landing on what was going to be the modality that I would want to share with people that I could be bringing into the world.

And, um, just. Just this constant flitting and then frustration and then, and then just when the energy depletion afterwards of just like diving into so many spiritual themes and getting exhausted by the whole thing and then kind of starting at square one again. And, um, and so when I had my soul plan read and then the breadcrumb trail, you know, like you said, suddenly this thing pops up about soul transformation therapy training.

It was during lockdown. I needed something to do. I wanted something, and I didn't even think I would do that as my work, you know, but I just, just did it from, for me. And it wasn't the soul plan training. It was taught by blue Marsden himself. And it was, um, Soul transformation therapy. And by the end of that, I became a qualified soul transformation therapist and I was like, Oh my gosh, I'll need to try this with some clients.

So, you know, I got some people who'd done my programs and such, you know, to, to have these sessions with me. And it just gave me the confidence that I needed to realize that like, this is some, there's something to this. So then when the soul plan. Training came, I did that and that is when I just completely went, yes, and sort of working with people one on one.

And now I finally, it's like that little itch that's been scratching me for two years has just been, and I'm not saying this is the be all end all, it's a stepping stone. There's more I can be doing, but right now.  Reading people's soul plans is bringing me so much joy and the feedback that I'm getting from the work.

And I know that you've just qualified, so I don't even know if you've had a chance to do many yet, but  yeah, well, I, I finished the course, I think.  Time is such a weird anomaly. I think it was last week. I think, I  think I saw it on Facebook last week.  Yeah, I was going to say, I was last week or the week before, but regardless, I've done two, um, readings since, and I've got two books for next week and I've got people kind of lining up, which is really beautiful.

Um,  and I'm really enjoying it. And I think that the,  I think bringing my Skill set to the soul plan. Like all the stuff I've done before, whether it's the, the stepping out of the closet or whether it's the, you know, shamanic medicine woman work that I've done or whether it's the spiritual mentoring or whatever it is that I'm doing, the space clearing, bringing all of that and then stepping into the soul plan learnings.

Was really good for me. If I've done soul plan five years ago, I certainly wouldn't have, you know, yes, I would have been a, an okay age to be, you know, a bit wiser, but, but now I think  there's been so much happened in my life, so much growth  that  stepping into the soul plan structure. And as a practitioner, I can weave these other magic.

elements into it. Yeah. And the thing that like the people who I've done the readings for, obviously I'm still very much in my infancy, um,  given it was only a week or I think it was that, you know, I, I became certified.  Um, the, you know, what the, the lady's giving back to me has been really beautiful. You know, they can really see that it makes sense, um, for them.

They can see that there's practical ways in their lives and on my blog when, cause I redid all my branding and website last year, about November, 2021, and my web developer said, we need a few words at the start, the top of the blog page, what are we going to put there? And I said, where practicality. And spirituality collide  and that's  You know, that came well before I did the soul plan stuff, but if I take all of the things that I've done and I line them all up, you know, in a little nice little row and I put soul plan at the end, that's exactly what it is, right?

Because you and I both came from the practical side  and the practical side is important. We have to wake up. We have to need that foundation. Yeah. If people are running around like I had this chicken every day and they're like you said, yeah, they're unorganized and everything, then they don't have the space to be able to move.

Into these higher levels of consciousness. They're too busy in their 3d reality. Just like, like you said, just floundering. And so I think the work that we have done in the past to help our clients and well, but I'm still doing, cause I've still got my project, we membership in this, I'm still doing all that stuff, but it's just, it's building that firm foundation, but I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I just, I'm on a little bit of a tangent here.

I feel that when we are. What too many people think that it's just about managing their lives and then when their lives get into a really good management point of view, that's when everything is just going to be, you know, and they don't realize that that's just the foundation to get you to open up to your inner world.

It's your outer world and your inner world. And I know your podcast is even called that. Tell, tell everyone the name of your podcast. Well, the current one is called Trust and Transform Your Inner Room. Podcast with your inner room, your inner room, meaning, you know, your inner being. And, um, it's very much, that's the way I'm now seeing my life wheel.

My life wheel has the pedals that are all around the outside. All those pedals represent that your outer world, all those areas of your life that, you know, need to be in a nice space. Uh, they're, they're, they're trying to make sure that you have this nicer balance that you've got that sense of, um, stability, but that circle in the middle, the red circle that I put in just as a design flourish, cause it was just going to look weird to have a white nothing in the middle.

I put this red circle in the middle. And I'm now seeing that that circle in the middle is your inner world. And that is, you know, what really begins to open up for you when you have that, that more balanced outer world.  Yeah. Yeah. I had an amazing. The term your inner room came to me through an amazing,  you know, journey meditation experience.

I just love how, you know, we're open to those.  opportunities for the wisdom to land, but we have to get off that treadmill. We have to get out of our head. We have to go, you know, there's more to life than just ticking the to do list off.  And that can take courage  to do. Yeah. You mentioned a journey and I did, um, a shamanic mentorship for one year.

It got me through, you know, all of 2020 I was running my program, but at the same time I was doing the shamanic mentorship with, um, Dakota earth cloud Walker in America and these journeys. I mean, they're, I mean, incredible when you, it's more than a meditation, right? I mean, the drums are taking you, the rattles are taking you and you're just going through a portal into  other realms of consciousness.

And it's just incredible what you find there. And the beginning, you can think, Oh, that was just my imagination. And, you know, well, you know, our imagination is the gateway to it all. And, you know, am I just making all this up? And then you realize that there's just too much out there, you know, for, It to all be made up.

And the more you get into all that stuff, it's just incredible. That leads me to what I really wanted, what we were kind of talking about when, um, okay. So you know how  within the same few days of each other, I woke up and had the buzzing in my head and the, um,  Stuff going on in my head and then you posted on Facebook that you'd had that I know that's not the first time for you But you'd had a really powerful Buzzing in your head and everything and then when we messaged each other and we got on that call You said, um, I thought it was awakening and you said ascension and then we didn't really get to talk more about that so tell me what you make of This stuff that's happening to us and to others right now Hmm.

It's really interesting. I think we need to separate firstly, what is awakening and what is Ascension. And it's very interesting because since we've sent, I sent you that message and we connected, I've been really thinking about Ascension in particular.  Let's talk about awakening first.  And I, cause I think that's the easiest place to start.

Yeah. I, I believe that awakening is. a process which can happen either quickly or slowly depending on who you are. You and I would say that  we awakened quite some time ago. Yeah, but we didn't decide gradually. Yeah. We didn't just open the door and step out and go, Hey, here I am. Now I'm spiritually awakened person.

It was a gradual process, which can often be quite gentle.  Um, all quite brutal depending on the process, but it might be things like, you know, I'm starting to believe in angels or we still, my son and I would drive around the city and we go, um, you know, thank you, traffic fairies. And can we get the parking fairies?

And, you know, it's amazing what opens up to you when you start to believe. And at the moment we, and it's a game for us now, but you know,  that can be where you start. You actually start to call on the angels, call on your guides. Um, aware that there's elementals, whether they're fairies or tree keepers or leprechauns or goblins or whatever, that you think there's other elements out there.

And that's that awakening process. And when you feel like you start to take the blinkers off and you take it off in a gentle, safe,  you know,  slowish kind of way, um. And it's actually really beautiful because it's what you said before, Kelly, where you, the ladies on that scale of zero to 10, you know, where are you on the woo woo scale?

And then you see that transformation and you see them 12, 18, whatever months later, and they themselves are acknowledging that they are now,  they've awakened to, there's something else. And I think that there's nearly always something else. Like, I think we're always. Going to be expanding in our awakening.

Prices. There's always something else that's so for sure. It's like as soon as you're kind of like, Oh, I finally got into grips with this and yeah, now I've got proof of it. You know, proof is, you know, the, the magic that happens, the synchronicities, the coincidences that are just too big to write off the feeling, all of that.

And suddenly you're, you're embodying that. And then ding, there's something else. And then you, I can't. I can't. Yeah, you're off down another little journey or whatever. What I will say is that I used to worry about that because I thought I, if I became too woo woo, if I got too into all the stuff that I knew was out there, that I would change too much.

And my, there'd be a disconnect where my husband wouldn't understand me anymore, that we would drift apart, that my friends wouldn't get me anymore. I really did have a fear, a fear of awakening as I was awakening quite,  you know, not super fast, but you know, as I was having like a lot of awakenings, I was like, I don't want to change.

I want to change, but I don't want to change. I, I, you know, I wanted the stability of my friendships. And my family and my husband and all that stuff that, you know, the, the solid root chakra stuff. Um, but I wanted to like open up my crown chakra and be like, you know, like that. And, um, I'm really happy to say that it's, they're not mutually exclusive, but it isn't like you have to cling on to being a certain way you, when you evolve, you are, it's just an internal thing.

It's how you feel inside. And whether you want to express that outwardly to others, or like you said, you pick and choose who you're going to share what with. It's just a beautiful, beautiful feeling that doesn't make you higher than, better than, different than. It's just beautiful. It's just beautiful.

Like it's amazing. So I wish I could have had a crystal ball and been able to tell myself you have nothing to fear in the awakening process, Kelly. Like, you know, it's just, you're going to be you just like a more amplified, beautiful, vibrant version of you. Um, but you're not going to change in a weird way.

No, no, because you'd be wearing purple velvet and jingle jangles and you know, it would be the total opposite to the Kelly who was, you know, and still is within you. Yeah. I think the challenge with an awakening process, one of the challenges is,  To not try and drag everyone else along with you  to, you know, how you pick up the book and you think, Oh my gosh, this is like the best thing since sliced bread and I've got to buy it for everyone for Christmas  because I want them to come with me.

I did that with the magic, Rhonda Burns, the magic back in, you know, 2000, 2005 or whatever it came out of.  Yeah.  It's a, it's a tough,  it's a tough call because it's a really solo journey  and what you need to do is surround yourself with other people who are,  I would suggest just a little bit in front of you of the journey, not necessarily, I mean, you're never going to find someone on the exact same page.

Level anyway, really, but someone who's perhaps been through some of the stuff, like if I had known someone who I could turn to and say,  okay, this is what I'm going through. This is what I'm experiencing. This is what I'm finding, you know, whether it's energetically in my body or with my clear abilities going, you know, off the charts or whatever.

If there was somebody I could talk to who then went number one, Helen, you're not going insane. Number two, this is how you can manage it in your daily life because that's really important. But then three, this is how you can use those beautiful gifts that you are born with, spiritual gifts, to actually make sense of your world.

I would have, you know, been at that person's door. In the, in the blink of an eye, um, because I think now there's a lot more people saying I am awakening or, you know, I, I hesitate to say I'm awakened because as I've already said, there's always this expansion, but there's always someone in front of you who's hopefully taken a few more steps or fallen down the hole and can help you step over the hole so you don't have to  go down the same path.

It's so true. When we have that support of people who get it or who are at least open minded to hearing it, even if they don't get it, it just makes all the difference. I feel so blessed that I happen to have, um, three soul sisters and they're just incredible. They didn't know each other before we had independent friendships with each of them.

Um, but you know, now kind of come together sometimes. And, um, I just know that, and they're just, they're, they are my little angels, you know, it'd be like, they just, We always think of each other and send each other a message or we'll draw a card for the person on that day, right, when they hear it. So we've got all these synchronicities happening.

And then what's happening now is, um, you know, aside from my project, we community I've got, um, you know, people have done my program and we've got like another, another community going there. And I just went on retreat with a group of those women and everything. And so, yeah, when you've got community and you've got synchronicities, 77 in your worldly goal as well, um, back to soul plan again, when I have that as well.

So my seven, seven, I've got seven, seven as my soul destiny. So seven, seven energy is about creating community, about bringing people together, being a catalyst for change. And, um, yeah, really it's about, um, It is about that, those connections and all of that. It's like not doing it on your own, but like creating these environments.

So you find it in your work that you create doing more group work.  Yeah, definitely. I it's really interesting. Obviously COVID threw a spanner in all sorts of face to face.  Um, but starting to step more back into doing that, because as I'm sure it's everybody, you know, for two years or whatever the timeframe we, we were solo, we were on our own.

We were looking at everyone on zoom and, you know, that became very fatiguing, often exhausting and annoying, um, and stepping back into this space of. Being in a vibration with other people.  Um, and I'm not saying because I'm very energetically sensitive, you know, I'm not going to go necessarily to a a hundred room event, a hundred people events, sorry, not a hundred groups, a hundred people events.

Um, but I might go somewhere where there's a smaller group of people because it's, it's that small community and being held by the right people I find is. The important part of this whole journey. And I think that this leads us quite nicely, Kelly, if it's okay to Ascension. Yes, please. Um, and this idea of Ascension.

So  again, I've been thinking about this a lot since our first connection and actually having conversations in my own head with my spirit team, with people, you know, who are very close, you know, my little tribe as well going, I'm really interested to really unpack this a bit more  because I think  We have to be careful in the spiritual community.

You know, am I on a higher rung than you Kelly? Because I've done X, Y, Z and this, that, and the rest of it. Right. And I think ascension  gives the impression  that I am now,  I don't know, Jesus or God or do you know what I mean? Like I have a higher level somehow than everybody else. So yeah, I've evolved to be a higher level than you.

And. That I think is bollocks, and I think that probably happens in spirit world once I'm dead on the other side. Someone else is in charge of that. That does not happen to me here. What happens to me here, I believe this, and I know other people have many differing views on it,  I believe that we expand and contract,  and we expand and we're pushing out, like,  You know, a bit like a balloon, if you're on the inside of it, you're pushing it out, right?

Um, and then you contract a little bit and then you expand a bit further and the balloon gets bigger and then you contract and you expand and you get, so you're, it's a bit like your computer in that your computer stays the same.  My body stays the same, but my computer gets upgrades because I get told every two months, you know, to upgrade the operating system or whatever.

So my body, and that comes back to what, um, I posted, you know, on Facebook around, you know, the head tingles and all that kind of stuff. I have that all the time, but when I posted that, it was, you know, off the charts.  Um, and that to me is when that experience, Um, and when I am then stepping into a new version of me, and often that can be, you know, lots of downloads of information or it can be, you know, those clear abilities increasing or whatever it is.

It's not. My schedule, it's spirit schedule and they just kind of make it happen anyway. Um, so that's my thoughts on it. No, I mean, I, well, I don't have, I don't have a view on it. So I loved that because it just made such sense to me. The whole, when you said about. How your computer operating system you need to let you need.

And then when you do it, it's still your same computer and everything's still kind of works the same, but there's just some things that are speeded up and there's some added extras and there's some, you know, like, Oh, now I can do this. I didn't know my phone. And there's like, I mean, you get a new, a new phone upgrade.

It's like suddenly like, Oh, I didn't realize I could just do that with it. And so I completely get that, that it's just, it's getting, it's getting an energetic upgrade.  That makes sense to me. Totally. And I completely and utterly agree. Hear you. Um, I absolutely don't believe that anybody is more than or less than or anything.

I think that when you begin to move into these higher, I say higher, I don't mean higher on a hierarchy, higher as in just, I don't know, high, higher like that. When you move into these higher realms of understanding and consciousness.  Your ego  becomes like less important and suddenly when your ego is, you know, subsides and whatever, then there's no longer this, well, A, you're not going to get the egotistical, well, you know, I'm here and you're there.

You don't have that because that's ego, right? But you no longer also have the, Oh, I'm here and she's there. You also don't have that. You, you, you don't have that less than. And you don't have that more than you don't have that comparison. You don't have, you're just sovereign in your own  essence, in your own being, and you're on your own journey.

And it's exciting and it's, you know, healing. And it's, you go through a lot of different things, but it's like everyone else's around you and you see them on a soul level. You almost see that somebody who's behaving in a way that maybe you would have. formerly judged as being really, um, egotistical or a very, um, uh, you know, just labeling them as being a certain way.

Um, you're able to see them on a soul level and to see that they're, that's the, that's the challenge that their soul chose for them to have in this lifetime is to, to go through that and to be like that. And then you have so much compassion. And not compassion, like, Oh, I feel really sorry for you, but just compassion.

Just, just okay. And then people can kind of behave in different ways around you. And it sort of  flows off you like water off a duck's back rather than affecting you because you just see everybody as a bunch of souls living out. This lifetime and you know that next time they'll come back and maybe they'll be redoing that because this time they didn't get it in this lifetime.

They'll get it again next time, you know, so I was even able to during the US elections, you know, with Trump and with all this kind of stuff. I don't like Donald Trump. But I wasn't, I wasn't like venomous about it. I wasn't like, Oh my God, this guy's, you know, you know, whatever. And I can name other people in the world as well.

Um, I see everybody on, as on a soul level and I can, I can see, I can have compassion for how they are and we all have kind of different.  soul destinies in this lifetime. And some people's soul destiny really is to be  big, huge change maker and to like, you know, do, you know, they're here to like do things like that.

And other people are here to spread love and joy. And there's, you know, different, different things that we're here to do, which is one of the things I love about sharing people's soul plans with them, because then they no longer go around with arbitrary goals that they think they should be doing, but they're like in alignment with actually what their soul destiny and what their goals are that they chose to have in this lifetime.

So, yeah. Yeah. And what a relief to actually know that, right. And to go, cause I'm an identical twin and the amount of people who think that when you're an identical twin, you're the same person, which clearly we are not.  So, you know, obviously our paths are really different. Um, but if it's okay, I just want to jump back to this Ascension thing just really briefly, because I, I think we were talking about awakening and how it can be really gentle and,  you know, Slow or slower, but the thing that I think is really important to, um, talk about and acknowledge with, you know, this expansion, this upgrade that we're going to be going through.

If we, if that's our journey is the uncomfortableness.  And I think it's really important to  own and acknowledge and be okay with the fact that you might actually be out of action for a week because your body is just saying, you have to be here in bed relaxing. So if we use the computer or the phone analogy again, like if I do an operating system update on my computer, it can take.

hours, depending on internet speed, the size of the download, the whole kit and caboodle, right? And maybe I'll come back to it tomorrow and we'll have to, I don't know, still think and do a few random things.  But it takes time for it to, you know, settle into the flow of what that new upgrade is. And our physical bodies, you know, these are dense,  heavy, solid masses.

And if we are getting a big upgrade or an expansion from our spirit team or the universe,  then our poor little bodies are going to feel it. So it could be exhaustion or migraines or, upset tummies or like the, there's a thousand symptoms, right? We don't need to go there, but I just think, you know, I really want the listener to acknowledge that if they're in this space  to just  go,  it's okay.

And just allow it to be like, if you are able to, you know, close the curtains and go to sleep at two o'clock. Even though it's a Wednesday afternoon or whatever, then please go ahead and do that because the, the more, this is one learning that I, big learning I've had is the more that I  own where I am  in my expansion journey, the quicker the process.

So last week, for example, I'm currently part of this conscious book writing club and I'm writing my book and we have to write and hand in our Writing two days prior to our meeting to our accountability partner.  And our meetings are on Wednesday and I hadn't written anything Monday through Friday, like zip.

And so I sent a message to the lady running the course and my accountability partner. And I said, look, I'm really sorry, but I'm currently going through an existential crisis  and my body is not coping. So I will just see what I can get done from a writing perspective. As soon as I acknowledged. Where I was at within 24 hours, I was back to sitting and writing at my computer, right?

Just acknowledging it. Acknowledging it. And, and yes, I've been through it a few times, a few thousand times, but regardless, the more you acknowledge it, the more you give it what it needs, which is really giving you what you need, then you will move through that. You know, expansion more quickly. And then again, like you've said with your phone, you'll, you'll come out the other side and you'll go, Oh, that's interesting.

I've got that little ability now. Oh, that's, you know, a new thing I can do, which is kind of fun. Love that. And that's so true. I have been that way where I've just been like, Oh my God, why I had, you know, it's Make my to do list in the morning of everything I'm going to get done and I'm just hit a brick wall and I'm like, oh my god, I just have to go and lie down and you know, whatever.

It's just like, oh, what's wrong with me? You know, what's going on? I was supposed to go to the gym today and I just, I'm on the elliptical machine. I'm like, I just have no energy. What's wrong with me? You know, whatever. And it's like, yeah, just like acknowledge, realize that you just need to like lie down for a bit.

Give yourself that, that time. And when I do that, you're absolutely right. When I just, you know, put some essential oils around and put my crystals around me and lie down, then I moved through it so much faster. Yeah. Yeah. And that's hard to do in our busy pace. And, you know, we're women and we can. Carry a gazillion things at once when we actually just say, no, I can't do this now.

I really need to give to me. It's amazing how more quickly we can move through some of those uncomfortable symptoms, but that's also not to say you shouldn't go and get support, you know, like if you want to go see your kinesiologist or Reiki practitioner or massage or do some tapping or whatever the thing is for you, you know, go ahead and do those because energetically that will help your system come back into balance as well.

And so back to ascension again. Um, so I get the analogy of, um, that we're getting an upgrade. And so  my mind goes to, and then what, like ascending, I mean, you hear of ascended masters, you hear of ascended, but you were talking about that happening on the other side.

Do you have anything more to say, Eleanor?  That's what, that's what I think. Like, I think I have the right as a little 3D body living, you know, in Brisbane, Australia, walking my earthwalk till, I don't know, however old I am when I finally die. I'm actually here. On this planet to work out what it's like to be a human and collect all of the disasters and all of the joy and all of the grief and all of the fun and like the whole caboodle of being a human as much as it can be really, really tough.

That's what I'm here to do. Yes. I'm here to expand. Yes. I'm here to grow. Yes. I'm here to, you know, work with whatever spirit gives me in regards to whatever the upgrades. All the expansions are,  but is it my right to kind of get, you know, I'm ascending as I walk here. Like  I'm not, I think I'm in the spirit land for a spirit space for, I don't know, it could be thousands of years before I then reincarnate, right?

So I'm doing lots of work over there as well. And I figured there's people, people, there's energies and vibrations in spirit land that know a lot more than I do. And so when I'm there, they'll help me. You know, and whether that involves ascension on the other side, you know,  I will never consciously. That makes total sense to me.

You're really good at it. See, you are very good at the practical at the, what did you say? What's your tagline on your, um, on your website? On the blog, it says where practicality and spirituality collide. There we go. See, you're very good at that. Um, I have felt for such a long time and I've got journal entries about it from years ago that I thought.

I believe that in this lifetime, I'm meant to amass as much knowledge and information as I can, so that when I leave, and I can eventually come back again, because I believed in reincarnation for a very long time, um, that when I come back again, I'll come back at a more very much. more elevated place right from birth.

You know how there's some people who are just born. Well, you, for example, you know, born already from a child already having these like clairvoyant abilities and everything like that. Not me, not me, you know? So I feel like in this lifetime, if I can just, um, learn and grow and be curious and be open and just amass, you know, lots of information, um, and heal healing, healing, healing, like heal things.

From myself, which is in turn healing things from my ancestral line and new future and past and everything healing. And then, um, when I come back next time, I'll come back at a, at a more elevated, like, starting point, you know? And then I think the more of us who come back from an elevated starting point, as opposed to coming back Fred Flintstone, Fred and Wilma Flintstone level,  If we come back at this level, then it just means that we can be ascending the, the planet into like whatever is the next, the next step for humanity for the whole planet, you know?

So I know I'm getting really off on one there, but it's just something that I have always felt. So that's why I'm such an eager beaver when it comes to like, just dabbling in everything and exploring everything. And I'm turning my spiritual challenge, that six, six challenge of butterfly nature and wanting to dive into everything, but I'm learning.

And I'm beginning to turn that into a gift, um, because it is being a dabbler is, is really fun and I enjoy it. And so, um, my affirmation around that I wrote myself an affirmation. I'm aware of my challenge of getting immersed in many spiritual themes and ideas without filtering, flitting from one thing to the next and feeling frustrated, overwhelmed and losing my energy.

When I feel my energy is scattered, I will take scleranthus. Scoranthesis, which is a botch flower remedy for helping you to feel more focused. Um, I will choose one activity at a time and see it through to a high level.  I will prioritize what is actually important and break goals down into step by step, and I will channel my creativity in ways that sees them through to fruition.

My mind is open to spiritual abundance. Yeah, I just, I just needed to take that challenge and see what gifts it has brought me because being as. Spiritual Junkie has given me, um, great podcast and, uh, and it's, and it's given me the ability to be able to, um, to share a lot of different things with a lot of people and to experience a lot of things.

So I no longer see that as my spiritual challenge. I now see it as, as a gift.  I love that. I think that's really cool. I use this term healer hunter, but what I'm hearing from you is that you're actually a Curating  the learnings, whereas a, a healer hunter is someone who  always looks externally to themselves and thinks that the thing or the person or the book or the workshop or the learning will heal them.

And so they're a bit of a. Junkie like junkie, whereas you're beautifully curating your experiences and then you're able to bring it forward and  yeah, I'm all about like having the experience and then sharing it out. Yeah. I love it. Oh gosh, Helen. I could talk to you forever. I'm trying to think if there's anything else that I definitely wanted to make sure I asked you about.

Well, I just think it's, I think overall I just wanted to have this conversation for anybody listening who feels nervous about stepping out of the closet. They know. Know that they've got this parts of themselves, and it could either be a part of their, that they're not bringing it into their work the way that they want to, or that they're just not, um, in, in their lives.

You know, they're hiding this part of themselves. I just like wanna hope that our conversation helps to encourage people, that the more you open up about it, that the, the, the less, like you said before, people are less. Judgmental and reactionary about it than you think in your head. They're going to be And also the more you open up the more you find your tribe I've had so many people who've done sort of tarot sessions with me and things like that say Oh, I mentioned to a work colleague that I had a tarot session with you last night It turns out she loves tarot too And now we have this connection and I neither one of them they sat next to each other neither one of them ever said that about that to each other and now they've got this like You You know, buddy at work who they can talk to about stuff like that.

So I say just like drop that kind of stuff in, normalize the conversation, just say that kind of thing. If they, if they react in a way that isn't like favorable, like don't take it personally. Like not everybody's on the same level. It doesn't have to crush you. Doesn't have to like throw you back into the woo woo closet with the door locked the way that it did me that offhanded comment from my husband, which didn't mean any harm by, um, you know, so yeah, you just like go for it.

Yeah, definitely. Go for it. And,  you know, you, you may be surprised. You may find, you know, a new best friend or a new experience or opportunity, which will help you expand even more, um, instead of, you know, being quiet, living in fear or worry. Um, and that just, you know, being open to that expansion really excites me and, you know, it excites me for what we are able to do in this world in and amongst the chaos and the crazy and the overwhelm.

Um, and we need more people to step forward. So  hooray for us and anyone listening who's willing to as well.  Great. Thank you, Helen. So I want to make sure everyone knows how to find you. So tell everyone about your website and your, what are your social media handles and all that.  Sure. So Helenjoybutler.

com is my website  and Facebook and Instagram are my two main platforms. And that's just at Helen Joy Butler. But as you've already said, there's a podcast, which is the Trust and Transform the Your Inner Room podcast.  And prior to that podcast,  was another one called Musings on Sanctuary and Spirituality.

So that's a really good one to, um, particularly for people that are, you know, maybe new on their journey to step into, you know, what is sanctuary? What is spirituality? And then of course, this other one is, we've just taken a pause from the podcast.  Yeah. I just heard that there's a season. Yeah. You have a season.

I think I need to have a season three coming up to wrestle in season two.  Yeah. Well, you need to pause. Like I, uh, in the last episode I just said, you know, we're just pausing because spirits now saying it's time to pause. So I'm following that and then I'll be back with more, you know, when it's time.

Brilliant. Love it. Okay, Helen. Well, I'll put all the links for everything to in the show notes. And I'm so happy that we picked up this conversation again with the mics turned on this time. It's really great seeing you and connecting with you again. And I just know our paths will continue to weave in and out.

In this beautiful way that it has since  2012.  Oh my gosh. See, I'm so glad you remember that Kelly, because I'm hopeless with years and dates and months and days and time and all of it. So even the fact that you remember that it's been 10 years. Yeah.  Connected. It's beautiful. Thank you. Yeah. All right, Helen.

Lots of love. Same. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Thanks for listening to the project me podcast. I'll create an episode discussion post on my Instagram. My handle there is Kelly project me and on Facebook it's project me Kelly P and you can tell Helen and I what you think and ask us any questions you can also email me hello at my project me. com.  I still don't have anything about my soul plan sessions on my website, but again, email me and I'm happy to send you full details.

If you live in Australia or New Zealand, and you'd like a soul plan session and more of your own time zone, do reach out to Helen Joy Butler.  And if you're wanting to build that firm foundation beneath you that Helen and I discussed, get the free Project Me Life Wheel tool on my website, myprojectme. com.

I'm excited to announce that I'm running my much loved High Vibe Journey program in September. This four week online program has changed a lot of lives and really woken women up to understanding themselves as energy and how to raise their own vibrational frequency. Even the most non woo woo women have absolutely loved this experience and you can read their stories on the  I'll add a link to the show notes here, or just do an online search for The High Vibe Journey.

I'd love to fill all 25 places before I head off for my summer holidays, so I'm doing a very special early bird price right now.  Until next time,  open your mind, open your heart, and stay curious.  We all need some space in our lives for the magical and unknown.